Misandry as a myth (an addendum)
July 23, 2011 62 Comments
My last blog, which caused some controversy, asked ‘is misandry a myth?‘ – I published it on hackeryblog as well and another contributor wrote a reply to it here.
I realise I wasn’t particularly clear about where I stood on the issue exactly, what I believed, or what sort of conclusion I came to. It was actually originally intended to be a piece mooting whether or not it could be argued as a myth in theory, rather than me actually arguing that it was or wasn’t. I wanted to just explore the arguments. As such it was a bit inconclusive or unclear what I generally thought.
However, I’ve now read a bit more on the subject, namely this piece at Adonis Mirror which looks at the etymology of misogyny, misandry and misanthropy. It helped me to realise exactly why the word seems a bit off to me – I’ll explain the arguments it sets out in the rest of this post. It basically argues that the word ‘misandry’ doesn’t work in the same way that ‘misogyny’ does. That is to say, misandry was invented by antifeminists as a way of turning the tables on women when they tried to assert themselves. Thus, the real myth here is that misandry as a word works as the exact opposite to misogyny – that the two words are equally weighted.
Of course there are people who dislike men, but when I talk about misogyny I tend to mean institutionalised, generalised misogyny. It’s not particularly that individuals are inherently misogynist or bad people – but that they have been brought up in a misogynist society and they have not questioned why they think women are their property, or why women can or should be humiliated sexually, etc. Furthermore, it is possible for women to be misogynistic, too. On the other hand, the accusation of misandry is only ever levelled at women, by men. So, misogyny is ‘hatred of women’, and misandry is ‘hatred of men by women’.
I have only ever heard it being said in arguments about feminism, when women are fighting too strongly against the oppression they face every day; when women want to try and assert themselves or try to explain how society oppresses women still, to a great extent – this is misandry. And these general statements – ‘I hate men’ etc – are turned into genuinely personal attacks by those men who hear it. Misandry enables men to feel that they are the victim in these situations, because it sounds like it means the same thing as misogyny, but the other way.
I also see a distinction between the two in that misogyny is usually aimed at an individual woman in particular. To me, it’s the description of a woman being collectively oppressed by society, and by individuals too. Whereas misandry is usually used in the context of a conversation between two people. It’s one man being ‘oppressed’ by one woman because she wants to assert herself and fight back against the situation she’s found herself in. To me, “I hate women” seems to mean that individual women are hated. When someone says it to me, I genuinely get the impression that I, as a woman, come under that umbrella and that they have no respect for me. “I hate men” is, to me, clearly a generic term for ‘men’ as in, a group of men – society, the patriarchy, etc – not individual men that are encountered in everyday life.
To surmise, I have issues with the assumption that misandry is the other side of the coin when it comes to hating a particular gender. I believe it doesn’t come anywhere close to expressing the flip-side of what I see as institutionalised misogyny and a general loathing of women, or the belief that women get in the way, or that they should be used for sex, or are only useful for babies… I could go on and on about the many different ways in which I come across misogyny in my life but I won’t. The truth is, there are people out there who will dislike people based on gender, race, sexuality, etc – but I think we should be careful about what labels we assign to them. By all means, call people out when they are doing this, I just don’t think we should use words like ‘misandry’ because the word suggests more than it actually means.
About Soph
The same can be said about females. any time a man tries to be assertive or not allow a woman to overbear him he is called a misogynistic pig. watch the youtube videos MAN WOMAN MYTH. Equality?? women have that. now they want special treatment. ” give me more because im a woman and in the past my sex was downtroden” Im irish so does that mean I deserve reparations for the slavery and murder and rape and de-humanizing tactics done to my ancestors? no of course not. Misandry and Misogyny are both real to the same degree. men are also very capable of misandry. I guess as a female you dont see it and we as men are expected to silently take it. But our young men today are learning early on to be ashamed of being men. Women abuse more children than men…fact. womens health issues receive more funding and more public light…fact. women receive more resources in the matters of education…fact. But as men we must just shut up and take it …right? and if we do speak up against the all to common fleecing of male beings then obviously we are misogynists…right? Dont take light of a serious and accepted form of discrimination. Be a better person. Equality…not preferential treatment. misandry is just as bad as misogyny, only more accepted.
The same can be said about females. any time a man tries to be assertive or not allow a woman to overbear him he is called a misogynistic pig. watch the youtube videos MAN WOMAN MYTH. Equality?? women have that. now they want special treatment. ” give me more because im a woman and in the past my sex was downtroden” Im irish so does that mean I deserve reparations for the slavery and murder and rape and de-humanizing tactics done to my ancestors? no of course not. Misandry and Misogyny are both real to the same degree. men are also very capable of misandry. I guess as a female you dont see it and we as men are expected to silently take it. But our young men today are learning early on to be ashamed of being men. Women abuse more children than men…fact. womens health issues receive more funding and more public light…fact. women receive more resources in the matters of education…fact. But as men we must just shut up and take it …right? and if we do speak up against the all to common fleecing of male beings then obviously we are misogynists…right? Dont take light of a serious and accepted form of discrimination. Be a better person. Equality…not preferential treatment. misandry is just as bad as misogyny, only more accepted.
Reply
Joe,
“I guess as a female you dont see it and we as men are expected to silently take it.”
So, as a mere female, she’s unable to see what men deal with, whereas your viewpoint, as a man, holds more weight? Then would it also be fair to say that, as a male, you’re unable to see when women are expected to internalize their frustrations about sexism?
“Women abuse more children than men”
Really? Care to provide some evidence for this? I know both men and women can abuse children, but I always see anti-feminists use this line without providing any sort of proof. Even so, take into account the fact that there are many women who are single mothers because the father is uninvolved. I’m curious as to what the number would be if only two-parent households were included.
“But our young men today are learning early on to be ashamed of being men.”
I don’t really see it. I do, however, see girls and women shamed into believing that it’s wrong to be offended at something misogynistic. If someone dislikes rap lyrics about controlling bitches or whatever, apparently the person is being “too PC” and should be ashamed of being a stereotypical nagging, humorless woman.
“womens health issues receive more funding and more public light…fact.”
Fair enough. Then again, women tend to seek out help more. Also, there are specific health issues men don’t deal with (mainly pregnancy and all the innumerable problems that come with it for some women).
“But as men we must just shut up and take it …right?”
Just like how women are told to shut up and take it if something misogynistic offends them…right?
“and if we do speak up against the all to common fleecing of male beings then obviously we are misogynists…right?”
Talk about melodramatic. No, you’re not misogynists for complaining about sexism against men. People like you are, however, hypocrites for complaining about anything that sounds “misandric” (even the thing in question is not) while brushing off blatant misogyny.
“Dont take light of a serious and accepted form of discrimination.”
Who’s taking light of it? The author was making the point that misandry simply isn’t the same as misogyny. Misogyny has been around for centuries, and it’s still widely accepted and practiced to this day. Every single country has some sort of misogyny in its culture. In male-dominated cultures, girls and women are considered brainless liabilities that need to be controlled, lest they have *gasp* rights! Even if someone says something nasty about the male sex, it is not something that’s woven so tightly into the fabric of society. You don’t hear women calling men “naggy bitches” for complaining about something, but apparently it’s hilarious to tell a woman how naggy and bitchy she is for expressing her opinion.
“Be a better person.”
She’s not a good enough person and needs to be “better” because she thinks misogyny is more widespread and accepted than misandry (which it is)?
“misandry is just as bad as misogyny, only more accepted.”
I’m sorry, but your ignorance is showing. Misogyny is the most accepted form of prejudice in the world. That’s why we still have female infanticide. That’s why women can’t travel alone or get a job without a man’s permission. That’s why women are blamed for leading men astray with their sexual appeal (victim-blaming). It’s wrong to bash either sex, but to say that misandry is “more accepted” is an extremely ignorant statement.
and you are so wrong. Misandry id the most accepted form of discrimination in the world today. Its in the media, comercials, buisness, and most prevalant in our schools. Your misinformed statements further solidify the fact that you are a woman and therefore mens issues do not exist or are not worthy. You naver hear of a buisness telling women that they may not sit next to a child because she may rape said child ( british airways ) Look at all the female teachers that rape male students…..they get a slap on the wrist and jokes made about it. If it where a male teacher the world would be outraged. Or all the countless women who kill their children and try and get away with it yet the NOW organization gets them off mostly on the basis of “the stress of being a woman” Really????? thats ok by you???? We are not living in a male dominated culture. It is a feminine dominated culture. And you want to talk about ” victimization” lol just look at the court system and how it discriminates against men. Dads who have been proven by dna to not be the father are still forced to pay child support or go to jail. What about dead beat moms???? nothing happens. Multiple shelters for single mothers and none for single fathers ( I am a single father and speak from expereince on this) . It is more than ignorant of you to falsley claim misogyny is worse. It is not. Misandry is accepted and in fact encouraged by our female driven society. take a moment to watch the ” MAN WOMAN MYTH ” series on youtube. I have seen those aswell as the NOW videos and other feminist videos so as to ensure I have both sides of the coin.
I’m sorry, but no. Misandry is NOT the “most accepted” form of discrimination in the world. Look around you, for fuck’s sake. Look at the countries where women are treated as sub-human and where female infanticide is regularly practiced. You can argue that men deal with unfair things, but to say that misandry is some sort of international crisis is ridiculous.
I love how you people cherry-pick things. Okay, British Airways sucks, but that’s one example. I could give you many more examples of things women deal with which is much worse than “you can’t sit next to this child.” How about not being able to drive, go out on your own without a male relative’s permission, not being allowed to get an education, etc. This is ACCEPTED in MANY countries throughout the world.
“Feminine-dominated” culture? There is no such thing (with perhaps very few exceptions). Most congresspeople are men. Most CEOs are men. Okay, women get custody of the children more often than men, but that’s because they’re burdened with the stereotype of being the main caretaker. There should be shelters for single dads, but the fact of the matter is that there are far more single moms and thus, more resources are put into it.
It’s ignorant and fucking arrogant of you to claim misandry is more widespread than misogyny when there is a whole fucking world out there, filled with laws that treat women like they’re fucking sub-human. Okay, you’re right, men deal with unfair shit. But misandry is not as big of an issue as misogyny from a GLOBAL perspective. “Female-driven society” my ass.
I guess as a woman you choose not to see the all to comon discrimination against men. Any time a man brings up the FACTS of the feminin world ( and yes its a womans world ) the femenist crys misogyny. Example….A law passed in Norway and in Spain that after a man comes home from a hard day of work, so that the bills are paid, food is on the table, and all other needs are met, that he must do half of the house work or he will go to jail. no such law forcing women to pay for half the bills. But thats ok by you because you are a woman right? 500 men apply to a tech school in england and only 50 women apply. there are only 100 openings. because the school want equal male and female students 100% of female applicants are accepted and only 20% of the male. fully discriminating against men. But thats ok by you because your a female correct? On british airways a man cannot sit beside any child because he might rape said child. An instance ( one of many in our society ) Where a huge buissness is stating that ALL men ARE rapists and pediphiles. but your ok with that because you a female…..right? Open your eyes!!!! I speak out against ALL FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION…….it is not ok for you to minimize one over the other. it happens….its real. recognize it fight against it. Turning a blind eye to it or pretending that its not that bad does not stop it.
Okay, I think I’ve established that you’re a troll. Tell me, is it a “woman’s world” when you have people aborting females simply for being girls? Is it a “woman’s world” when wives are slowly stoned to death for cheating, while the husband gets off scot-free? The examples you give are cherry-picked, and nowhere near as harsh as the shit girls and women go through in extremely patriarchal countries.
I’m not even going to bother with you anymore. Any time a woman complains about something, you say she has no right to be pissed. I agree that men deal with unfair things, too, but don’t you dare fucking tell me that men are the more oppressed sex. Look at the whole fucking world and try to fucking say that again.
another quick couple of coments. What about the video game where women walk around and shoot men. They get points for shooting them and the men turn into tumbstones. but thats ok by you because I suppose it would go under the guise of revenge correct? Women on average in the western world earn more money on average than men today yet men are still the vast majority of people who take out a life insurance policy to benefit their children in case of their death. Women get to retire 5 years earlier than men. Womens health issues receive 150% more funding than mens health ( breast cancer research last year reported receiving $25,000,000 in funding. Prostate cancer reported $4,000 in funding. Puting your head in the sand and pretending it will be ok or minimizing misandry will not make it go away. Women have more than equality today they have superiority in almost all ways. The pendulum has swung too far. Equality would mean women treated as equal even when the perverbial s#$t hits the fan. But women want equality until the ship goes down and then its women out at the same time as children. Women where not meant to compete with man rather to acompany him…and the same is vise-versa. women have their strengths men theirs. I beleive because you are a woman you can not ( or more likeley choose not) to see men as being discriminated against. Women have multiple voices and millions of dollars in federal government…men have none. mens issues are just as important as womens. Dont pretend they are not.
Your research is rather flawed. More than 50% percent of ceo are women in the western world. And cherry picking???? I at least have taken the time to see the feminine point of veiw. your use of vulgarity proves that you know you are wrong and as a sphycological ploy involve the use of profanity to persuade. I recently received my press pass almost one year ago.I took the courses and used my pass originally to fight for women. However upon countless hours, interviews, travel and much more I was shocked to find out about the sheer nuber of falsehoods and feminine propaganda against men that even respected news agencies ran only to disciver they where lies. and by law they did retractions. ( only they where typed and available upon request only ). At least take the time to watch the MAN WOMAN MYTH videos and get a different perspective. if you want to better serve your cause you should be informed on both sides. And for gods sake dont use vulgarngauge! nothing stales a cause more than sailor talk.
Your veiw of the world is so narrow!!! get out and get educated if you want to help your cause. Im freinds with several feminists who hate feminazies like you. You cuss you use vulgar language and you even stoop to name calling. How third grade of you. And you want women such as youself in power? Men are the ones who lay thier lives down for freedom. men who invented the worlds greatest things. men who fix them. men who fight for women. A woman will not generally take a bullet for her husband but the husband sure will for her. men are the ones who invented the computer you are using. Studies have shown women have no interest in tech things as a whole ( some exeptions of course). but i in no wat shape or form put down women or minimize their plight. I have traveled the world spoke to women government and done the research. I know the truth so have no reason to stoop to use vulgarity because I am right…And the misandry bubble is starting to be recognized. Go to youtube and type in misandry and see for yourself ( and try not to cuss at the computer too much ) The truth will come out. Have a blessed day and I wish you nothing but the best.
“Women where not meant to compete with man rather to acompany him…and the same is vise-versa. women have their strengths men theirs.”
Translation:’Women are good for fucking, giving birth, housework and taking out your frustration on and Men are good for controlling women’s lives as well as everything else.’ no matter how masculists pretend to care about women at best it’s the same as how people concern themselves with the wellbeing of animals or the disabled. their ‘kindness’ comes from pity and/or.a lack of respect. you don’t even believe that those ‘strengths’ are equal you think men are superior which is why masculists hide behind the idea that male traits and women’s traits are ‘complementary’. it’s a bad joke. you write pages upon pages about the evils of men’s discrimination and then come out with sexist gender roles. typical and cynical masculist hypocrisy.
once again you try and silence anyone who doesn’t completely agree with you with false accusations such as ‘feminazi’. you don’t seem to understand the term ‘cherry-picking’ or that just because you can list some discrimination against men that it doesn’t mean that it’s of equal or greater severity or incidence than misogyny. using rape as an example feminists agree that both men and women face discrimination by the legal system in our patriarchal society and that arguably male victims (especially by female rapists) find it more difficult to achieve justice, but most victims in general are unable to prosecute their attackers (some western countries like the UK have a conviction percentage in single figures) as well as that all reliable bodies believe that most rapes are unreported and even conservative estimates state that more individual women are raped in comparison to men so numerically it’s a greater problem for women. it makes sense for feminists to tackle the problems relative to the amount of people it affects as well as how serious it is.
feminists don’t expect MRAs to fight for women’s issues so the automatic expectation by masculists (who don’t believe in equality and don’t care about helping women anyway) that feminists should put equal effort into campaigning for men is logically inconsistent. nor are the actions of MRAs against discrimination always ideologically opposed to feminism even if they don’t identify themselves as feminists and vice-versa (despite the claims of masculists say that every victory for feminism is unfair) e.g. the fight for paternity leave which was lobbied for by feminists in Sweden and was supported by feminists such as the Fawcett Society in the UK..also, feminists didn’t cause a lot of the inequalities men face in the first place. we might sometimes have different priorities but that doesn’t mean we support it or are the cause, it was men who oppressed other members of their own sex NOT WOMEN!. patriarchal gender roles treat men and women differently, can be held by anyone and affect everyone..
i agree with the OP’s post. often men claim that it’s misandry to say factual things about men and that it refers to every single individual when what it’s doing was specifying their group. e.g if i say “tell men not to rape” that can be interpreted to mean different things relative to your beliefs. some might interpret it to mean ‘every male individual is a rapist’ or it can mean that ‘most rapists are male’ (which is a true statement) and that action should be taken in respect with which sex is the greater offender. also, it specifically reflects the different attitudes between genders towards sensitivity to rape victims and fear within our victim-blaming male-centric rape culture.
WOW!!!! you just tottaly read what I wrote and dindt see any of the words… WE ACCOMPANY EACHOTHER!!!! I said nothing about beatings and sexual anything. But thats stereo typical feminist b.s. the classic ” I dont care what you say because im going to hear what I want and spin it in a negative way. If you have male children I feel sorry for them and even worse if you have female children….Do you berate male children too simply because they are men…Do you tell them that they will be rapists and murderes just because of their sex???? Do you tell them women are better than them in every way so why should a male even bother trying to do good in school??? My lord I said nothing bad about women and in fact recognized their plight and you read…..I dont know what you read…..sure wasnt what I wrote.
Definition of MISANDRY
: a hatred of men
— mis·an·drist noun or adjective
Origin of MISANDRY
mis- (as in misanthropy) + andr- + 2-y
First Known Use: circa 1909
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misandry
“The word misandry may not be in everyone’s computer dictionary, but the reality is out there. A reality without a name, however, is largely invisible.
We are all familiar with misogyny: the hatred of women. This has been well-researched for decades. We are less familiar with misandry: the hatred of men, or more broadly, the hatred, fear, anger and contempt of men. It is worth some consideration, especially since misandry is by no means restricted to women. Indeed some of the most male-negative people out there are men.”
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/rethinking-men/201010/why-some-people-have-issues-men-misandry
http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2007/12/16/recognising-misogyny-and-misandry/
When men are discriminated against it’s not because they’re men it’s because of race, class, sexuality, mannerisms, disability etc.
The people in charge of society and mass accepted discourse is controlled men, so this is really a product of men not women. We do not hold the majority of the worlds sociopolitical power (not even close) and if we truly did we would be runnings things differently and war wouldn’t be on the agenda (this means if women were in charge of the world not just the western world).
All through out history men with higher status have sent men and boys (child soliders and boys trying to pass as an adult to go, so they can be a ‘hero’ and never make it to adulthood or come back with trauma). Millions of men have been sacrificed on the battlefield in the name of whatever the profiteers are peddling or just desperation
You speak of war yet you ignore that women and children are collateral and/or victimized by rape and violence to strike fear into the enemy. That mass prostiution has been supplied by the government in times of war most of those women were not there by choice. You speak of war but I can tell you truly don’t care of those brutalized and slaughtered I can tell you don’t. I’m am feminist but that doesn’t mean I don’t care about other causes, I can assure almost all of society ills is the fault of men and heirachal serving ideology guess who on the top. The men on top have forced women into a subordinate sexual class not only to control women (therefore control society) but as a bone thrown their ‘lessers’. Have nothing and basically no societal standing but have a woman under you and as property and opportunity to have progeny men are also duped by male supremacy. An entire class do not get rule everything without having to take responsiblity.
No, men get discriminated just for being men, and then if they also happen to be a minority they get discriminated EVEN MORE. And if they’re short, that’s a third level of discrimination.
Look up studies on gender differences in sentencing. Owning a penis means you will get a much much longer sentence than a woman for THE EXACT SAME CRIME. Just because you are male.
If you’re a black male, you’re screwed, you get both the anti-male and anti-black discrimination.
But across all groups, countries and nationalities men get much much much longer and harsher sentences than women of EQUAL status, race, ethnicity etc…
“The people in charge of society and mass accepted discourse is controlled men, so this is really a product of men not women.”
Well then Kelly, you can thank those men for ALLOWING you women to move up in the world.I mean, if EVERYTHING is controlled by men, then it MUST have been mostly men fighting for female rights… AND YOU STILL HAVE NO RESPECT FOR MEN, even after they fought for your right to work, vote, and be immoral!? Not to mention all the males who died in wars to protect WOMEN!, and country….
Put it this way. Women in the WESTERN world, have it better than ANYONE in the history of the planet. Yet you still complain…. I suspect that you, as a woman, are aware that women are now equals to men.. well, equal but superior… And the denial of the facts is proof that women don’t give a damn about men’s issues.
Joe I tried reading your whinging I really tried but I couldn’t get through it. I mean talk about projecting you’ve done nothing but spout rude uninformed and incorrect nonsense then accuse the blog owner of rudeness. “More than fifty percent of ceos are women” on what planet might I ask?
Did you personally invent the computer… No no you did not. Do not take credit for the achievements of other men they didn’t do it for you. Oh by the way if you try flipping that around on me with oppression. Oppression leaves a damaging legacy on an entire class, inventions tend to leave a legacy of progress and inspiration which is ussually attributed to the man or men who created it, its not analogous.
When women have been systematically held down, denied education and devalued its a little hard to invent things. This applies men who are disadvantaged in society, poor and disadvanted men tend not to have the time and skills for inventing even then it was practically impossible to gain acknowledgement. There’s a reason most inventors are white males that are at least middle class.
The child seating arrangement of BA is clearly to prevent potential molestation and lawsuits not to because they have something against men. Sexual predators usually assualt people in privacy (anyone of any age can be sexually assualted and almost always the attacker will be male) children have been assualted in places such as airplane seats. You should angry at the pedophiles (predatory men) for such a necessary precaution not women don’t really benefit from this. I think you care more about your ‘feewings’ than childrens rights, why is that?
I’ve seen people say that feminism is not a big monolithic group–them how come it is okay to group ALL men as one…..
Barrack Obama is NOT watching my back….
The thought process seems flawed to say there are two classes–Men vs. Women….
Also I have asked other places and I have not been given a definition of patriarchy. I have looked and read over 100 pages on the internet on this. It seems to me that if you are saying the world works according to x,y and z–to get people to accept that is closer to religion than to science if you don’t present proof. I am not stating that sexism does not exist nor that women have legitimate complaints. I am also finding flaw with the argument that misandry doesn’t exist-specifically the article referenced at Adonis’s Mirror…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_are_stupid,_throw_rocks_at_them!
From the Adonis Mirror Website:
“Whenever American manhood has undergone a period of crisis, white males have found solace in the safety of mythological past; a history that they can control in every possible way. Language is a useful tool in that process. Faux-Latinate words, or those cobbled together from Ancient Greek components, are of prime importance: they are imposing, legalistic, and above all, utterly masculine.”
Misandry in literature
Misandry in ancient Greek literature
Classics professor Froma Zeitlin of Princeton University discussed misandry in her article titled “Patterns of Gender in Aeschylean Drama: Seven against Thebes and the Danaid Trilogy”.[1] She writes:
The most significant point of contact, however, between Eteocles and the suppliant Danaids is, in fact, their extreme positions with regard to the opposite sex: the misogyny of Eteocles’ outburst against all women of whatever variety (Se. 181-202) has its counterpart in the seeming misandry of the Danaids, who although opposed to their Egyptian cousins in particular (marriage with them is incestuous, they are violent men) often extend their objections to include the race of males as a whole and view their cause as a passionate contest between the sexes (cf. Su. 29, 393, 487, 818, 951).[1]
Misandry and literary criticism
In his book, Gender and Judaism: The Transformation of Tradition, Harry Brod, a Professor of Philosophy and Humanities in the Department of Philosophy and Religion at the University of Northern Iowa, writes:
In the introduction to The Great Comic Book Heroes, Jules Feiffer writes that this is Superman’s joke on the rest of us. Clark is Superman’s vision of what other men are really like. We are scared, incompetent, and powerless, particularly around women. Though Feiffer took the joke good-naturedly, a more cynical response would see here the Kryptonian’s misanthropy, his misandry embodied in Clark and his misogyny in his wish that Lois be enamored of Clark (much like Oberon takes out hostility toward Titania by having her fall in love with an ass in Shakespeare’s Midsummer-Night’s Dream).[2]
Julie M. Thompson, a feminist author, connects misandry with envy of men, in particular “penis envy”, a term coined by Sigmund Freud in 1908, in his theory of female sexual development.[3]
Comparisons with other forms of bigotry
In 1999, masculist writer Warren Farrell compared dehumanizing stereotyping of men to dehumanization of the Vietnamese people as “gooks”.[4]
In the past quarter century, we exposed biases against other races and called it racism, and we exposed biases against women and called it sexism. Biases against men we call humor.
—Warren Farrell, Women Can’t Hear What Men Don’t Say
Religious Studies professors Paul Nathanson and Katherine Young made similar comparisons in their 2001, three-book series Beyond the Fall of Man,[5] which treats misandry as a form of prejudice and discrimination that has become institutionalized in North American society.
In the 2007 book, International Encyclopedia of Men and Masculinities, Marc A. Ouellette directly contrasted misandry and misogyny, arguing that “misandry lacks the systemic, transhistoric, institutionalized, and legislated antipathy of misogyny”.[6]
Notable instances of misandry
Academic Alice Echols, in her 1989 book Daring To Be Bad: Radical Feminism in America, 1967–1975, argued that radical feminist Valerie Solanas, best known for her attempted murder of Andy Warhol in 1968, displayed an extreme level of misandry compared to other radical feminists of the time in her tract, The SCUM Manifesto. Echols stated,
Solanas’s unabashed misandry—especially her belief in men’s biological inferiority—her endorsement of relationships between ‘independent women,’ and her dismissal of sex as ‘the refuge of the mindless’ contravened the sort of radical feminism which prevailed in most women’s groups across the country.[7]
Some other researchers have argued that Solanas’ SCUM Manifesto was a parody of patriarchy and the Freudian theory of femininity, where the word woman was replaced by man. The text contains all the clichés of Freudian psychoanalytical theory: the biological accident, the incomplete sex and “penis envy” which became “pussy envy”.[8][9] Solanas told a reporter that the SCUM Manifesto was not meant to be taken seriously.[10] She was later diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and depression; some observers think she was suffering from these illnesses at the time of her writing.[11][12][13]
Nathanson and Young argued that “ideological feminism” has imposed misandry on culture.[14] Their 2001 book, Spreading Misandry, analyzed “pop cultural artifacts and productions from the 1990s” from movies to greeting cards for what they consider contained pervasive messages of hatred toward men. Legalizing Misandry (2005), the second in the series, gave similar attention to laws in North America.
In 2002, pundit Charlotte Hays wrote “that the anti-male philosophy of radical feminism has filtered into the culture at large is incontestable; indeed, this attitude has become so pervasive that we hardly notice it any longer”.[15]
Wendy McElroy
Main article: Wendy McElroy
Wendy McElroy, an individualist feminist and Fox News commentator,[16] wrote in 2001 that some feminists “have redefined the view of the movement of the opposite sex” as “a hot anger toward men seems to have turned into a cold hatred”.[17] She argued it was a misandrist position to consider men, as a class, to be irreformable or rapists. McElroy stated “a new ideology has come to the forefront… radical or gender, feminism”, one that has “joined hands with [the] political correctness movement that condemns the panorama of western civilization as sexist and racist: the product of ‘dead white males’”.[18]
As a criticism of feminism
In his 1997 book The Gender Knot: Unraveling Our Patriarchal Legacy, sociologist Allan G. Johnson stated that accusations of man-hating have been used to put down feminists. Johnson notes that the word misandry did not appear in dictionaries until recently, but the concept of the hatred of men is long established. The accusation of misandry is often effective against feminists because “people often confuse men as individuals with men as a dominant and privileged category of people.”[19] He wrote that given the “reality of women’s oppression, male privilege, and men’s enforcement of both, it’s hardly surprising that every woman should have moments where she resents or even hates ‘men’”.[19]
Discrimination against men
An example of gender discrimination against men occurred with the airline sex discrimination policy controversy. British Airways, Qantas, and Air New Zealand all had policies prohibiting men from sitting next to unaccompanied children on commercial flights. There has never been a documented case of in-flight child abuse.[20]
Presumption of male guilt in criminal law
US Bureau of Justice Statistics shows that women are 50% more likely than men to avoid a murder conviction for extrajudicial killings (women account for 12.0% of extrajudicial killings, but only 8.0% of all murder convictions).[21] Once a murder conviction takes place, men are five times more likely to be sentenced to death (98.2% of all death row inmates are men, 3,291 men compared to 59 women).[22] Once on death row, women are 50% less likely to be executed compared to men (since 1970, 1,099 men executed compared to 11 women).[22] Men on death row are twice as likely as women to be wrongfully convicted and subsequently exonerated due to new evidence—since 1973, 112 death row inmates were completely exonerated, including 111 males and a single female, Sabrina Butler, who was wrongfully convicted of murdering her nine-month old son in 1990 and exonerated in 1995.[23]
See also
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/misandry#ixzz1XkvEnan3
http://www.answers.com/topic/misandry
All oppression is connected stonerboner I can assure the patriachy does exist. The patriachy (rule of the father) is the heirachal construct which places males as superior and females as subordinate it sounds simple but it’s been in existence for millenia and is constantly perpetuated. The patriachy exists but so do other heirachal constructs based in classim and racism among other things (with the the Rich White Male at the top-funny that) which is blended into a huge heirachal mish mash of oppression of the those lower on the food chain so to speak. Patriachy exists, Racism exists, Classism exists, Oppression exists. The social engineering in order create and sustain the heirachy is not on accident.
MIsandry exists and is institutionalized in Sweden:
htxp://forrettindafeminismi.wordpress.com/
I changed the second “t” to an “x” in the http so it wouldn’t be a direct link. If you doubt me, change the x to a t, copy and paste and go to that website. I’d suggest skipping the first one hour Swedish tv program, but it really doesn’t matter. Click on the start of the second one, click “cc” to get it in English, watch it, and try to deny misandry exists in institutionalized form.
“So, as a mere female, she’s unable to see what men deal with, whereas your viewpoint, as a man, holds more weight? Then would it also be fair to say that, as a male, you’re unable to see when women are expected to internalize their frustrations about sexism?”
Well, I wouldn’t say “mere” female. But yes, thats exactly what that means. My viewpoint, as a man, asctually DOES hold more weight when the topic is “what men experience” and your viewpoint, as a woman, holds more weight when the topic is “what women experience”
To suggest that a man and woman’s experience is equal when it comes to the question of “what the other gender experiences” is completely ludicrous, and the idea that you think it does (presumably, based on what was written here) is asinine.
And for the record, I have seen men called misandrous plenty of times. One only has to watch a sitcom or block of commercials to see misandry inflicted by men.
Also this:
““I hate men” is, to me, clearly a generic term for ‘men’ as in, a group of men – society, the patriarchy, etc – not individual men that are encountered in everyday life.”
Thats your viewpoint as a woman. You don’t get to decide when someone says “I hate men” whether I feel that it applies to me, as a man, individually. For the record, I do, actually. Because when someone says “I hate men” with no qualifiers, what other choice do i have but to assume that, yes, they mean me too? I fall into the category of “men” do I not?
So if I might ask, how have the men replying have personally affected by mIsandry? Petty and incoherrant anecdotes need not apply.
Maybe I should turn it around on you, Kelly, and ask how you’ve been personally affected by misogyny. You don’t live in rural Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, or war-torn Africa. No one will stop you from running for Parliament or voting all female tickets when you vote the rest of your life.
It should be enough that misogyny exists, and it shouldn’t have to have ruined your life before you can talk about it. Same with misandry. I see it, I’ll criticize it.
You first but since you asked I’ll indulge you, (if you try and flip that you’ll have proved my point about oppression). On personal experience been sexually assualted though I have many female friends you’ve had it worst. I have strong sense of justice and I see the worlds state and I personally gets to me I cannot be myopic when I see oppression and injustice. I’m fortuanate in comparison to many women that’s true but you are too fortunate. Point out oppression here doesn’t hinder oppression over there in fact sorting out misogyny is taking the right steps end it.
But now i’ve but myself on the line how about reciprocate and tell us *honestly* how you are oppressed by women, dont disappoint me or bullshit me I have the patience for it.
Also I apoligise for arguing on your blog soph. On my votes, Clarence, I align my vote to those I believe will provide the best government (not that matters as politicians are shady and self serving so I find myself picking the lesser evil) not the gender not that matter as it usually only men I have to pick from. So nice try.
Twice I have lost jobs (thankfully TEMP ones!) to false accusations, over a period of 15 years. Earlier, when I was 21 and very shy and awkward, I was sexually harrassed by a group of 5 young women at a job I worked. They would do such things as slap my ass, kiss me, pinch me and tease me in a sexual manner. When I complained to what I thought was the “head girl” I was told that if I complained, they would all say that I sexually harrassed THEM and back in the day they didn’t have pocket sized cameras of any type, so I had no doubt I’d lose that fight.
The fact that false accusations are both protected by society (by those who believe that women so rarely lie about such things that one can ignore the possibility) and the law (the current move to a “proponderance of evidence” standard in colleges is proof enough, even though it won’t affect me)is an example of misandry. To the extent that its tied to denying that women ever have sexual agency one could tie it to misogyny as well.
And please don’t condescend to me, Kelly. You are speaking to someone who, back in the early 90′s when he was a newly minted man used to consider himself a feminist, and who has been on sex and gender blogs since 1997. I’ve had more than my share of PHMT, WATMz and all that crap, and it’s partly why I’m an egalitarian humanist now and would not touch the title “feminist” with a ten foot pole.
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Do not condescend to me either Clarence. I was shy and awkward as well misogyny didn’t help that. Please excuse my skeptism, but TWO false accusations I assume of rape or sexual assault?
Many young women I know have had a lot of that crap (one instance an idiot (I never even talked to) jumped up screamed in my ear and slapped my butt to impress his buddies who then started throwing gender slurs at me-that’s one instance) But it was just sexual harrasment and not rape so reporting it to the appropiate people would be fruitless, embarrassing effort. It happened from a culture of sexism (you shouldve heard the crap that came from there mouth) however it’s not even a blip on the radar to the worlds situation.
Patriachy does hurt men the however it hurts women and children (they vulnerable and indoctrinated) more therefore they are the priority. For instance giving aid and developing skills of women in underprivileged countries because they are more likely to have healthier children and invest into the family it also gives them more standing in the community. I used to be solely a humanist until I realized that oppression is extremely ingrained in implicit and explicit ways. Despite the fact ‘womens are human rights’. Womens Issues are gendered Womens rights are a backburner issue with bones thrown here and there but it doesn’t really fix the all crushing heirachy (if only it would be widely recognized and called out).
I’m not in it for me it can’t change what happened but I want some social justice for others I want people in war torn to be able to return home and the innocent people who died from war to have a memorials, I want countries to acknowledge the oppression the native and ethnic people and truly make amends and for people of all races to have a represntation in the world, I want each and every government to apologise for it’s injustices and makes real amends, I want religion to own up for everything it’s ever done..ever (this century perhaps) and give it’s money those who actually need it, I want fundies and extremists to cut the crap, I want evolution deniers to seriously rethink their position.
I want corrupt goverments to cease to exist and their replacements to be just and effiecent, I want misogyny to be acknowledged, I want the sex trade abolished thanks to the swedish model, pornographers, pimps, johns and sex traffickers named and shamed and punished appropriately, I want rapists, murderer and pedophiles jailed (no excuses) but I want the jail system to shaped up (Its estimated 1 in 20 (obviously underreported) are raped in jail however they more likely to be attacked by a (male) prison employees, I want poverty and homelessness ended, I want illicit drugs eradicated, I want big business to stop being so greedy (lol), slave and child labour a things of the past, I want healthcare for everybody, disease prevention and better sex education, speaking of education I want everybody to at least be able to read and do basic math, have common sense and practical and life skills, in fact I want it to get to the point where the are no developing countries because every country is already developed and doing well for itself, safe legal abortion but sex selective abortion (yes that goes for boys to-its not just or good for the gender ratio…there’s more but that’s all I can think of for now. But that’s why I’m a feminist and a humanist why are you an MRA?
Clarence has commented many times around the blogsphere, many places. I don’t know him in real life and can’t vouche for him 100% but I think the point he is making is that men are rarely believed when such things happen–yes women aren’t often believed either…..
There is an interesting blogger named Toysoldier who writes about such issues….
……………….
One interesting article on power dynamics like kyriarchy is here:
http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/playing-the-victim/comment-page-1/
……………….
Kelly,
You said: “Patriachy does hurt men the however it hurts women and children (they vulnerable and indoctrinated) more therefore they are the priority. ”
Are boys not vunerable? I had put a link to “Boys are Stupid, Throw Rocks at Them” somewhere above…..
Is this misandry or another force at work?
If it is another force at work, is it still okay to call it misandry in light of not knowing that other force at work?
Did you even read the quote? children is a unisex term, little boys are hurt by obsessive maschismo which stunts them as people, trains boys to devalue females and things percieved to be feminine or weak,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-rowe/what-it-says-about-us-Jwhe_b_671373.html
This may be an extreme cases but the
This is a manifestation of toxic masculinity. A child is dead because a callous (I don’t know what to call him) wasn’t secure enough with himself that he took it out on a toddler that didn’t fit some arbitrary standard. It’s too cruel abuse must stop.
Men don not have to subscribe to the insane standards placed upon them but the do and often go along with unquestionably. They use it to police other men, to show off to bully each other. Like the insane standards of feminity that both men and women police and bully women into however the female role is for the benefit of the male role. Both men and women i.e society needs to recognize damaging gender roles and resist.
Misandry does not exist as you claim it does. Misanthropy yes, misandry of a societal level No. White male is still the default human and most joke at males expenss (for being male that is) are really harmless. It doesn’t have the millienia long, oppressive, purposely vulgar and malicous context that jokes at womens expense often indulge in. So no when you say misandy I call bullshit.
Why are so focused on ‘Boys are stupid throw rocks at them’ how many boys were harmed during the making of this shirt? Its a lame joke, with bad message and I wouldn’t wear it. It does nothing for the cause of feminism but slow it down debating about one childish shirts instead of tackling the real issues. But on the flipside.
http://blog.tshirt-factory.com/roger-davids-latest-graphic-t-shirts-rocksor-notis-it-just-art.html
Mens tshirts are often far more vulgar than ‘boys are stupid…’ and feminist don’t see them as major issue as you do the ‘boys are stupid’ shirt we have too many other more important issues to deal. Don’t you have other more important issues to speak of based in ‘misandry’.
Sexually assaulted men do exist and need help and consideration, many rape conselling services are run by feminists and feminist minded men. There is no shame in being raped of abused that belongs on the shoulders of the guilty.
Regardless of the gender or age of the victim, the perpatrator will overwhelmingly be male no two ways about it. Females can rape and abuse the majority don’t. But for those females rapist and abusers I believe that they should also be justly punished.
Kelly,
In response to the article:What it Says About Us When a 17-Month-Old Boy Is Beaten to Death for “Acting Like a Girl”–
I don’t know what to say except that it was a disturbing read….
From the article:
“I was trying to make him act like a boy instead of a little girl,” Jones explained. “I never struck that kid that hard before. A one-time mistake, and I am going to do 20 years.”
He told troopers that the little boy had been too feminine and that he’d been trying to toughen Roy up by literally beating the life out of him.
———-
One analysis is that it was misogyny and Pedro Jones murdered Roy Jones because he hated anything feminine….
Another analysis is that it was homophobic and Pedro murdered Roy because that is not how he is “supposed” to act and he wouldn’t of murdered Roy if he were a girl–one could even take it a step further and say it was misandry as he wasn’t acting male enough so he was murdered. “Man Up” is a misandric phrase….
Another analysis is that Pedro is a monster/sociopath/psychopath and he is just making excuses for inexcusable behavior….
So I don’t have an answer besides saying that it is bad thing….
At this point I will say that you and I have irreconcilable views. We may both agree that something is bad but we have such different viewpoints as to why it is bad, the powerstructures involved and the causes. It is as if a Christian and Muslim are arguing whose Holy Book is better….
—————
anyways another thing that strikes me as disturbing, Pedro Jones said: ” A one-time mistake, and I am going to do 20 years.”–Really seems like he doesn’t feel remorse for what he has done, he is just looking out for himself and he doesn’t care about what he has done. Maybe he is a cold blooded sociopath who can’t feel empathy…..
I think we can both agree that this was an avoidable tragedy. I can only hope the family is coping with their lost child.
He obviously grew up with male culture and absorbed harmful messages which he used as a reason or defence. His pathetic excuse wouldn’t exist if male culture wasn’t so toxic. It possible was a sociopath/phychopath though its possible hes in denial, whatever the case he should be held fully accountable for Roys death.
Homophobia has huge roots in misogyny ‘being like a woman’. Homosexuality is seen as unmanly and effeminate (which is untrue sexual orientarion and personality are not related). Misogyny is not the only motivation of homophobia religon has been huge influence. The leviticus quote was to discourage intercourse unlikley to result in children-Onans ‘spilling seed’ is another example. They didn’t understand how reproduction worked and thought women were literally incubators for mans sperm which was the ‘life force’ that created life womens part was severly underestimated. On another note it possible it was partially a reaction to other cultures at the time that accepted or promoted homosexuality and/or pedarasty-pedophilliac homosexual relationships (ancient Greece and Rome)
The ‘be a man’ trope is harmful and unhelpful it discourages empathy or signs of percieved weakness among other things. Ive seen a boy who skinned his knee (it was pretty nasty) in the park crying and his father harshly berating saying ‘get over it it’ll heal’ I felt I couldn’t say anything lest he started at me (had cousins-also male- with me couldn’t risk it had a little chat them after that it’s human to cry and don’t approach agressive people) and you know the ‘don’t interfere with other peoples parenting’ thing. Honestly from what I’ve seen the biggest man haters are other men.
Kelly,
If a man “opts out” of traditional masculinity, he pays a hefty price.
This is an article from “the other side” of the blogshpere:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/mens-issues/to-man-up-or-stand-down/
So, as a man, if I find pressure form other sources to “man up”–what do I call this? Misandry, an expectation to adhere to gender roles? I don’t expect Feminism to specifically answer those questions per se, however there will be criss cross and conflict when A)Feminism has been talking about these topics of gender for longer than anyone B)if I type something in google such as misandry or another topic related to sociology, at one point or another I will wind up in a Feminist space. When I contribute and say this does not jibe with my experiences, I may face a dismissive remark such as “what about teh menz” or “thanks for mansplain’” –now since you personally have not resorted to that, I have returned to leave comments.
Anyways, I don’t consider myself an MRA, nor a Feminist (as you can tell.)
As far as your analysis above-yes religion is one source of many problems for all people. As for your story above, most males have endured this many times growing up. If they say they experienced a form of abuse, they will be laughed at by other men and women. They will be told to quit whining and that others have faced much worse. However, this is a form of emotional castration that males endure and I don’t think it is healthy…..
When I google misandry I get MRA blogs claiming untrue things, overestimating the power women/feminists have, saying vicous things about women/feminists and other men who don’t hold their viewpoint.
Would I say toxic male culture is misandry? I’d argue it’s restrictive, damaging gender roles to an almost pathological degree, for some it is. Teaching and encouraging men to take up dominating, overly competitive behaviours helps keep things as they are peer and societal pressure is a harsh force. Again pulling the comparison card women and girls who don’t live up to or abide by female gender roles also recieve derison-if they are lucky they are ignored if not they are bullied, pressured and harrassed
Many ‘masculine’ women are scorned, a punchline or sometimes even assaulted.
Western countries make it difficult to step out of line but other countries are harsher on gender policing. Corrective rape is epidemic in south Africa many lesbian women are murdered afterwards.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2057744,00.html
http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/09/lesbian-corrective-rape-south-africa?cat=world&type=article
http://socialworkersview.blogspot.com/2011/01/corrective-rape.html?m=1
violent lesbophobia and misogyny is gleefully perpatrated by cruel men enforcing social protocol and terrorising all women.
Both genders put themselves on the line when they behave in ‘gender innapropriate’ ways to varying degrees. You can opt out however I doubt your life is endangered because of it. Though gay bashing and plain old bullying is still common in the west and percieved homosexuality or weakness can put men at risk. Social ostracism is often the worst most western gender role rejecting men get-not that it’s justified.
Both men and women are raised with toxic and restrictive gender roles and internalize it to varying degrees. It is difficult to rise above and unlearn what you’ve learnt especially when it’s so deeply ingrained and reinforced. However in the bigger picture I see the social construct still beneficial to men and needs them to be pawns in the sexist, racist, classist heirachal game. The patriachy isn’t just in the business of lording over women/girls and it goes by many names.
http://apublicblogging.wordpress.com/2010/04/11/male-on-male-violence/
Quoted from the article you cite above on Male on Male Violence:
“Men live with it every day too, but unlike women, men have never really complained about it too much. This is because the culture of violence/masculinity which maintains the social order is necessary to maintaining male privilege. As I mentioned there are social divisions between men, but even the poorest, low class men are privileged over all women. They’re relatively privileged, they’re not on the bottom rung so long as there is someone lower down the ladder than they are. There is a patriarchal dividend paid to all men regardless of social/class status.
This is why men don’t question or challenge the culture of violence in which they too are embroiled. Because doing something about it would be a threat to the patriarchal structures which ensure their status in society. It’s the price they tacitly agree to pay for male privilege. Far from ever complaining about this system, men seem to be celebrating it everywhere we turn. Entertainment media and pop culture is saturated with expressions of ultra masculinity, from tv and film through to video games and sport. I was thinking the other night, if television gets any more blokey, my tv is going to grow a penis and/or a beard. We are quite literally swimming in masculinity, male voices, male perspectives, male stories. How many new tv crime shows are being produced currently, for example? Or reality shows featuring brave men doing very dangerous and important work. How often are we warned about the “crisis in masculinity”? Like it’s going away or something. I wish!”
And there is another explanation, back to the father telling his son not to cry when he skimmed his knee. Men are told to suck it up. To not talk about the violence they endure. Think of the accusation often leveled at MRA’s when they complain about things that from their perspective as injustice: they are “whiners.” So, maybe you are using a framework of “Hegemonic Masculinity” to describe the situation of why a man who is subjected to violence and bullied is supposed to suck it up and take it. I am calling it misandry. Again an example of seeing something similar in culture at large but not seeing the same causes per se. I am trying to articulate the fact that men don’t have a “safe space” to talk about the violence they have endured and been a part of. So you will see men going online, trying to find some piece of themselves and then coming to a space that wasn’t meant for their experiences and then having disagreements similar to this. Again, as a male, I am told, sit down, shut up, earn money. Then go watch the football game, drink some beers and try to get laid. “Your a man, men don’t have problems, besides we need your sweat to build (crumbling) society. Get back to work, you assh*le.”
If you want a critique on modern masculinity, here is something I will say. I have been on the internet 3 hrs a day 5-6 days a week reading about sociology, society and gender to try to figure out things that have been in the back of my mind for years now. I am under a pseudonym. I wouldn’t want my family or co-workers to find out about what I am reading or writing. If anyone found out that I spent so much time on the ‘net. I’d just say, well, y’know, I like porn, don’t all guys. I would rather have them think I was doing that than writing this. Does that give you more insight to my situation? If I state that I want something different than my situation or a different world, there is always that ole crappy phrase- “Man Up.”
Late to post as Ive been busy IRL. Well to be honest many (self proclaimed or otherwise) MRAs and antifeminists really ‘whiners’ who’s theories really are complaining about problems created by men, their privilege/egos being infringed or just plain old misogyny. With no real intention of changing things for the better. They are afraid to lose privilige so fight back against change, can’t properly identify or analyse the factors that influences society and prioritise issues that affect them personally that are divorced from reality. My and many feminists sentiments to them isn’t ‘Man up’ but ‘Grow up’ take responsibity and loose the privilige.
Most men are huge fans of hegemonic masculinity (when it benefits them) and fear it being abolished as that would deny them privilige. Men have created hegemony and men the biggest enforcers, so it’s up to men to stop harming each other not women.
http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/solution-mra-problems-more-feminism/
I think wrongheaded men have found a safe space not that it’s safe from men who disagree with where they are coming from, ‘Mangina’ I mean…seriously. Men do need information teaching them just how unnecessary there predicament is and there is it’s feminism. Men benefit in the long run if they put the effort in.
As for the ‘earn money, drink beer, get laid’ demands you can thank capitalism, cosumerism, unhealthy drinking culture and sexism for that, men as a class created and dictates all of those. It’s a shame you can’t have an open dialogue with your family about the gender dichotomy among other things but how do you think these attitudes and behaviors are perpetuated in turn fueling systematic sexism? Find little ways to start up dialogue with people you trust to challenge gender dichotomy. Perhaps calling men other men out on porn, ignorance and violence would be a start.
The More Feminism article is interesting and problematic, still interesting as it opens up some point for discussion:
“Problem: Men have to do all the work asking women out, and women are often hostile to men’s overtures, which hurts men’s feelings.”
“MRA solution: Pay a lot of money to creepy men who label themselves “pickup artists” and who promise to teach you how to get any woman you want in bed. ”
Actually, I have many critques against “game” and think someone like Roisy/Heartiste is a huge jerk. Yes there are elements of game that are misogynistic-I would never defend someone like Gunwitch. There are also elements that are anti-male:
http://aleknovy.com/2011/08/01/the-best-article-on-the-game-scam-evah/
Overall, my opinion is “game” is making the relations between men and women more hostile and dishonest.
——-
Anyways, this opens a huge can of worms because if Feminism had a place for men then how come there are so many comments like “what about teh menz.”
——–
Thaddeus Blanchette offers a critique:
“In the series of articles published by GMPM, Amanda Marcotte is probably the author who most relies on openly parodying MRA positions to make her points. We can clearly see this when we compare her view on what the movement wants with regards to women and domestic work with those expressed by MRA leader Dan Moore on the same topic. Agree or disagree with Moore’s analysis, his points simply can’t be reduced to the sort of privileged whine Marcotte uses to portray them.”
http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/playing-the-victim/
I wrote a response to the Amanda Marcotte article, but since there were a few links, looks like it’s in moderation….
One thing that is somewhat nuanced is that at work, another guy said something to the effect of “You should buy a new truck, chicks dig new vehicles.” The reason I bring this up is that there seems to be this unspoken thing that I am supposed to be doing A,B and C to attract women and if I don’t I am either a wimp or gay. He never actually said the two later things but it’s ironic that he seems to think it is okay to tell me what to do with my money. I finally got the truck I have paid off, maybe I’d just like to keep a few extra dollars in the bank. Maybe he is just so ingrained in consumerism. I’ve also been growing facial hair. Two other guys I work with have facial hair, one is married and the other is in a longterm relationship. So I’ve gotten comments by two other guys and one woman to “shave that thing off.” If I was married, it would be one thing for my wife to say I don’t like the feel of that would you please trim it but another thing for people I’m not involved with telling me what to do with my body. Now I would not call this oppression by any means but I do bring it up to try to show that there is a “cultural code” in place for males.
Hi all – I think I have published all comments that were in moderation. Let me know if there are some that have been left behind. Been keeping quiet as I’m not sure what more I can add. Though I do feel we are reaching a point where it is best to say all parties agree to disagree.
One thing I wanted to clarify was the ‘myth’ part of the title. I don’t think that ‘misandry’ doesn’t exist in the sense that women never say bad things about men… Of course they do. BUT. As far as I am concerned, it *is* a myth in terms of it being a word that is on a par with misogyny. It just isn’t. Looking at the two words together, they seem like two sides of a coin. Like black and white. Total opposites. They’re absolutely not.
The article I’ve linked to in one of the blog post, if I remember correctly, explained that misandry is a much newer word and was created in order to counter accusations of misogyny.
I really hate using the word patriarchy or trying to explain it because, quite simply, others have done it better elsewhere – but I do honestly believe we live in a patriarchal system where men *generally* have more power over women. Women are viewed as a minority, still. In fact, there are roughly the same amount of women as there are men in the UK.
There is no reason why we should have less female MPs in parliament, no reason why we should have less female CEOs. I am not in favour of ‘female-only’ lists, or positive discrimination. But what we need to do is to address *why* this is the case. Is it because women are generally represented in a negative way in the press – only good for their bodies? Is that why voters don’t trust or vote for female politicians? Is it because women aren’t attracted to politics – why is this? Is politics truly female-friendly, or is it unattractive because of how women are treated? I trust you have all seen the clip of Nadine Dorries (as much as I dislike her) being ridiculed in parliament? Why are we shocked that there are less female MPs?
We need to tackle these sort of issues (used first example that came into my head), as far as I’m concerned. I don’t expect parliament to be split 50/50 gender-wise but I do expect it to be more representative. I *do* expect there to be no barriers to becoming an MP should someone want to – be it class, sexuality, gender, race, etc. Inequality needs to be acknowledged in order for us to eliminate it.
“Of course they do. BUT. As far as I am concerned, it *is* a myth in terms of it being a word that is on a par with misogyny. It just isn’t. Looking at the two words together, they seem like two sides of a coin. Like black and white. Total opposites. They’re absolutely not.”
It COULDN’T be on par with historical misogyny against women by men. So what?
How should this manifest in our thought and behavior?
Are you saying it’s less serious or doesn’t deserve our attention? It shouldn’t be looked into? We’re not just looking into misandry by women, btw. Much of it is by other men. Women aren’t kidnapped and made into soldiers.
I don’t agree with everything she says, but I recommend watching:
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat
Soph,
All my comments appear to be on board and not in moderation.
You are right that we won’t reach an agreement and I’ll just say it’s been interesting and we agree to disagree.
Have a good day….
Yes thank you Soph for this forum
I don’t think you can label a type of hate a myth.
No one would say racism is a myth or homophobia is a myth. Why would anyone say misandry is a myth?
We don’t have to argue about this. We can just accept the fact that hate exists and it’s bad.
It’s an interesting theory that feminism perpetuates misandry, but I think we should try to look beyond it at the root human causes of these workplace/relationship dysfunctions.By the way the blogger is off-base by saying misandry is an invented word; they both fell off the same ancient Greek olive cart.
I think the most common filter through which these two terms are viewed is in a professional sense, so that is in the arena I will cast them.
Misandry and misogyny are the labels most apt when either or both of the following happens: A) a man or woman become conflicted about their career status and begins to question the a possible corruption in the assessment process, or B)One sex is judged on their sex rather than their other attributes.
In the end so-called misandry or misogyny can describe a multitude of faults and sins worked upon intelligent men and women when they’ve arrived in a position whereby less intelligent men and women are in a position to either reward your continued development or retard it.
I also believe that just as it would be a sin to say women never succeed on their merits, it would be equally disingenuous to ignore that too often men and women advance on factors like sycophantism, credit stealing, emotional manipulation, and outright sabotage of the competition rather than the intelligence, dedication, moral substance and capability organizations need.
In head to head match ups I also think the corporate attitude in this day in age when faced with the choice of a man and a woman of equal intelligence and capability, is to tap the woman. More capable man, less capable woman, same unsquare deal.
As a intelligent person in 2011, you’ve got to acknowledge to you are facing this type of bias is now written into the code of most of the unthinking masses under 40. By the way listen to my words: I’m an emotional DaVinci.
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“It’s one man being ‘oppressed’ by one woman because she wants to assert herself and fight back against the situation she’s found herself in.”
So your saying if a women is oppressing and being hateful towards a man she is only “fighting back” against him then?
“I hate men” is, to me, clearly a generic term for ‘men’ as in, a group of men – society, the patriarchy, etc – not individual men that are encountered in everyday life. ”
Oh a woman saying “I hate men” is only saying she hates patriarchy not individual men is it? I very much doubit it.
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Glad to see people writing about this. I totally agree with you.
Where I see “misandry” used most is in an abuse of “safer space” ideas, where MRAs try to get “misandry” added to a list of prohibited behaviours in a forum’s safer spaces policy. Then, like you say, they can use accusations of “misandry” to shut down feminist work and to imply a false equivalence between hate speech in line with millennia of institutional oppression, and, well, some words.
I think analysis like this is really important in fighting back that kind of tactic.
I cant beleive in this supposed era of ” enlightenment” that women would resort to the piss poor tactic of opressing our former opressers ( and yes at least here in the U.S. they are former…we have equal rights and in most cases…most notably in areas of healthcare, and education , we women have an unfair institutional advantage), and in the same breath we tell our former opressors that it is ok for us to opress them. And to rub salt in the collective wound we tell men they are wrong for standing up for themselves. hmmmm sounds kind of familliar….kind of like what men used to tell women way back when. So we are now resorting to making the female sex the perverbial ” grunting cavewoman” with no emotion and complete disregard of the opposite sex. But hey lets berate and humiliate and feminize our men…its all ok as long as women are not hurt….right? Look…to all those galls that try and lie and say misandry doesn’t matter or is less of an offense…..your wrong. thats like saying its ok to beat people of one collor down because in the past they abbused your color or race. When one seeks revenge one must first dig two graves….Also one who digs a pit for their enemy will fall in it…one who trys to roll a boulder over thier enemy will be crushed by it. WAKE UP
The word misandry may not be in everyone’s computer dictionary, but the reality is out there. A reality without a name, however, is largely invisible.
We are all familiar with misogyny: the hatred of women. This has been well-researched for decades. We are less familiar with misandry: the hatred of men, or more broadly, the hatred, fear, anger and contempt of men. It is worth some consideration, especially since misandry is by no means restricted to women. Indeed some of the most male-negative people out there are men.
There are several levels, dimensions and causes of misandry which we need to separate, though they tend to be all stirred up and muddled together in any given discussion.
1. Reality: First we must acknowledge that misandry is partly reality-based to the degree that it is in part a reaction to misogyny, and to the real or perceived oppression of women by men. It’s Newtonian physics and the Marxist dialectic: the harder you hit your head against the wall, the harder it hits you back. Misogyny generates misandry.
2. History: Misandry is also based in history, or herstory, or a misreading of history. Most of the major villains of the last century have been male: Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Charles Taylor, Ceaucescu, Slobodan Milosevic, Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. But the misreading of history is three-fold. First, their villainy was a matter of power not gender. Second, women with absolute power have sometimes been absolute villains too. Third, we cannot ignore the male heroes, including those who fought against the tyrants and eventually deposed them, or died trying. It is poor scholarship and short-term politics to portray men as solely villains and to ignore the evil women (no names mentioned) and the good men.
3. Today: About 90% of all murders in North America are committed by men. The Top 10 on the FBI Most Wanted List are usually all male. Most of the corporate CEOs and CFOs arrested recently from Enron to Bernie Madoff have been men; Martha Stewart was a lowly exception. So there seem to be real grounds for misandry. But this is the Cyclops syndrome: to see with only one eye, in only one dimension and only half of reality (as with #2 above). Cyclops people stereotype the male by the actions of a minority, define the exceptions as the rule, ignore the majority, and ignore too the minority of female villains for a cleaner, clearer (supposedly) picture. Most murderers are male but most males are not murderers, and some women are. This is not rocket science. But misandry is less about reality than politics.
4. Personal: Some misandry is likely to be grounded, like misogyny, in bitter personal experiences. Many women say that that they have had unpleasant personal experiences with men: fathers, brothers, lovers, co-workers, bosses etc. But I suppose that we have all been hurt by members of the opposite sex, and by members of our own sex too; however, to extrapolate from a minority to the general is surely unfortunate, even if understandable.
How prevalent misandry and misogyny are today in Euro-America is not clear. I have not found any gender attitude survey statistics. It is also not clear whether misandry is grounded more in historical understanding or personal experience or gender politics; but certainly misandry is deep-rooted in our culture.
5. Political Demonization: This new sexism, reverse sexism, is widespread in feminist and pro-feminist literature – or propaganda, one might say, – but largely ignored. One does not criticize feminism! But a fair number of feminists have criticized men in sexist terms. Marilyn French called men “the enemy.” Germaine Greer wrote that that: “women have no idea how much men hate them.” Betty Friedan, amazingly, referred to suburban domestic life as a “comfortable concentration camp” for women, and to their husbands a SS prison guards. Rosalind Miles described men as “the death sex.” Valerie Solanas wrote “The SCUM Manifesto”, the Society for Cutting Up Men, and Robin Morgan obligingly publicized this hate literature. Alice Walker’s “The Color Purple” won the Pulitzer and is totally misandric, as are the best-sellers by Terry MacMillan. The movies were also were also very popular among women. Misandry sells. Why these black women should demonize black men, compounding sexism and racism, I don’t know. It just reinforces racism.
6. Angelization: The political demonization of men is complemented by the angelization of women in a moral bi-polar totally sexist evaluation of gender: women/good and men/bad. Elizabeth Cady Stanton stated in 1848: “In my opinion, he [man] is infinitely women’s inferior in every moral virtue.” Maria Montessori: “Perhaps…the reign of women is approaching, when the enigma of her anthropological superiority will be deciphered. Woman was always the custodian of human sentiment, morality and honor.” And as I noted earlier, it is not just women who are male-negative. The anthropologist Ashley Montagu explained that: “Woman is the creator and fosterer of life; man has been the mechanizer and destroyer of life…Women love the human race; men behave as if they were, on the whole, hostile to it…It is the function of women to teach men how to be human.” His emphasis. Women as human: men as subhuman, again. Then again, Ellen Sirleaf Johnson, the President of Liberia, was asked recently: “Do you think Africa will be peaceful and war-free if it has more women in leadership positions?” She replied in classic male-negative vein. “I have no doubt of that…[women have]
a sensitivity to human-kind. Maybe it comes from being a mother” (Time 11 May 09:6).
7. War: Misandry escalated in the 1990s.The battle of the sexes became the war against women. Susan Faludi subtitled “Backlash: The Undeclared War against American Women.” It was mostly about media criticism of feminism – the “war” was sheer hyperbole – but it won another Pulitzer. Marilyn French went further and wrote “The War against Women.” In Canada after Marc Lepine killed 14 women in a school shooting, the federally funded Committee on the Status of Women submitted a report entitled “The War against Women” citing the 117 women murdered in the previous year but ignoring double that number of men murdered in that same year. Misandry again, ignoring male victims for political purposes, and the downstream consequences for men and women have to be serious….as in:
8. Law: The homicidal war against men kills mostly men. Men are the principal victims of homicide. But never mind reality. Politics is all. The U.S. government passed the “Violence against Women Act in 1994, and this was followed soon afterwards by similar legislation in Canada. Forget the far greater violence against men and, especially in the States, black men, and in Canada First Nations men. There is a massive disjunction between legislation and need, thanks in part to our double standards and the Cyclops syndrome of selective perception…and also the failure of men to “man up.” It is not only the Criminal Justice system which discriminates against men, so does the health system, the education system and the welfare system. It is all consequential to this same misandry. (see references below)
9. Popular Culture: Misandry is now institutionalized in popular culture. Joke books, fridge magnets, T-shirts, coffee mugs, newspaper cartoons, TV sitcoms all deride all men all the time. There is no equal opportunity contempt, which in some respects is probably a good thing, but one wonders about the need for contempt. T-shirts say: “Women Rule. Men Drool” and “Boys are smelly. Throw rocks at them.” – an advocacy of violence which would be unconscionable were the sexes reversed. “Dead Men Don’t Rape.” Nor do most living men, of course. “So many men. So little ammunition.” “What do you call a man with half a brain? Gifted.” And so it continues. One joke book is titled “Men and other Reptiles” and another is “101 Reasons why a cat is better than a man.” The consequences of such male-negativity are not clear, but such negative affirmations seem likely to have, and to have had over the decades, a negative impact on both sexes: self-loathing and/or a resistance-generated misogyny among men, and contempt for men among women.
Wow, I am amazed at how much twisting of what one person is trying to say into something completely different is going on in this thread, and how little effort anyone has made to understand someone else’s point of view.
I have my opinion about whether misandry exists, but I can it would just be torn to shreds in this thread where everyone is out to prove the other side wrong and nobody ever seems to stop and say “Well actually that was a good point”, or “I can see what you mean by that”.
Better to win at all costs than to understand one another, right?
What can I say that onepissedwoman didn’t say in her thread above.
If only people would stop fighting and start listening.
The fact is that both men and women get discriminated against. We should work towards justice for all, and not turn a blind eye to injustices against one gender while focussed on injustices against another.
For those who bring up the injustices against women in other parts of the world. There is no denying this happens.
My question to you is: what are you doing about it?
May I also say that misandry is defined in my old 1977 dicitionary as “hatred of men”. Misogyny is defined as “hatred of women”.
It really is that simple.